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  • iDigitalMedium Research Team
11 minutes ago, Lance Reed said:

Hi Guys, Looks very promising!
You guys are great at electronics, circuits, I would not know where to start lol.
Thanks for sharing, Take care, Lance 

Thanks for your encouraging words, Lance. Everyone of us throws in what he can and that makes up this great community. We all contribute to the same goal.

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Very true!!  
Have you tried to make the light bridge that Sonia Rinaldi new project is?  
Where sound is converted to light then back into sound (I think That's what it does) I don't know what results Sonia's having with it?

Take care, Lance. 

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  • iDigitalMedium Research Team
2 hours ago, Lance Reed said:

Very true!!  
Have you tried to make the light bridge that Sonia Rinaldi new project is?  
Where sound is converted to light then back into sound (I think That's what it does) I don't know what results Sonia's having with it?

Take care, Lance. 

No, I didn't try this yet. There are many ways to do that, with a phototransitor and a LED, an audio optocoupler or even a laser.

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1 hour ago, Andres Ramos said:

Have you tried to make the light bridge that Sonia Rinaldi new project is?  
Where sound is converted to light then back into sound

I have tried this Lance. Used a red laser LED first as the light source, then a white LED. The receiver was a solar cell (which seemed to work better than a phototransitor or photodiode). The white LED seemed better than the laser, but not by much. I didnt rate this as greatly effective at gaining pk modulation, so didnt take it further. I think the results Sonia had with it were due to other factors which are not associated with this interface alone.

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7 hours ago, Andres Ramos said:

Even resistors with a rather low pk-modulation turn out to be more aggressive if exposed to more bias current.

Hi Andres, this is probably expected I guess, as the increased thermal agitation would tend to cancel inertia to external influences by making the switching of current paths more easy and likely to occur. Reminds me of my Radar days - where "jitter" (low freq noise) was added into servo motor dc control amplifiers, so to reduce the system's mechanical inertia, and make the gears respond to much smaller increments in control voltage, and hence be able to move the antenna in smaller increments.  I remember turning the jitter up too much, and observing the antenna dish was trembling slightly like it had Parkinsons !

An idea I had just now is that it is possible to combine the pk stimulation effect of pulsing with this thermal agitational effect of bias, by pulsing the bias so there is a high peak bias current from the pulse, depending on the duty cycle used.

Edited by Dr Jeffers
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8 hours ago, Dr Jeffers said:

Hi Andres, this is probably expected I guess, as the increased thermal agitation would tend to cancel inertia to external influences by making the switching of current paths more easy and likely to occur. Reminds me of my Radar days - where "jitter" (low freq noise) was added into servo motor dc control amplifiers, so to reduce the system's mechanical inertia, and make the gears respond to much smaller increments in control voltage, and hence be able to move the antenna in smaller increments.  I remember turning the jitter up too much, and observing the antenna dish was trembling slightly like it had Parkinsons !

An idea I had just now is that it is possible to combine the pk stimulation effect of pulsing with this thermal agitational effect of bias, by pulsing the bias so there is a high peak bias current from the pulse, depending on the duty cycle used.

Yes we already talked about that feature. I'm considering to use an NE555 with a switched inductor as a pulse generator with adjustable duty cycle. Simultaneously the conductor will also drive a current through CCR with higher values where the current would be limited by the 12V power supply otherwise.

See the schematic for my idea

export.pdf

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Before I do any changes on the currecnt circuit I did a test run to show you the signals coming out of this circuit. Due to the coherer characteristics of the CCR the signal is "spiky" but very strong. The following 10m clip was recorded while I was making serveral adjustments. Thus the signal is always changing. That gives you a good impression of the sound area the signal is moving in.

Raw Signal: CCR 2021-07-17 Export raw.mp3

Normally you can't read the spiky signals directly. Thus I applied a pitch shift of +30%, some reverb and at some positions in the signal a high pass filter (fc = 50Hz/6dB), occasionally 12db denoising, cut outs of longer pauses and an amplification of 5dB in the very low areas.

Processed signal: CCR 2021-07-17 export - processed.mp3

The signal processing makes the voices far more legible. The most readable voices are in the lower signal areas. The strong ones are too much distorted.

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 OK, last tests for today. Im Implemented a NE555 that loads a choke with current and rectifies the output voltage just like in a switched power supply. Thus I am gaining a voltage of about 40V I can apply to the CCR via a 100k potentiometer in series. Also should be able to work with CCR's that have higher impedances this way. The switching is done at 80KHz. I also modified the amplifier. It now has a 3 order butterworth low pass filter at it's input with a corner frequency of 6KHz. So I can gain a nice signal and the 80 kHz switching signal is rejected by more than 60dB.

Th circuit now behaves different. I threw out the noise gate because the SNR is so great already. The curious thing is that there seems to be a sweet point in the CCR bias current where certain voices are at maximum. I have the feeling that I can tune between different voices by adjusting the current but this is possibly more  feeling than a fact. Good spiky signal. Intelligibility is improved. Post processing with pitch shift and reverb yields good quality!

Raw Signal: Carbon Noiser 2021-07-04b Export - Raw.mp3

Processed-Signal: Carbon Noiser 2021-07-04b Export - Processed.mp3

Jeff, I tried tuning the CCR with and without rectifying the high voltage. In the latter case the CCR got excited by impulses and it worked. However I found out that with a constant current the voices are slightly clearer.

Schematic

Carbon Noiser V3.0.JPG

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Great circuit Andres. Youre getting some good results with it. Its morning here, and I was listening to the raw file (not fully awake). My mind heard (and drifted away with) the primordial sounds of wind, rain and thunder that I was hearing / experiencing. You have tapped into the energy sounds of nature. This is a great confirmation I think that youre heading in the right direction !

The voices have changed their characteristic, and dont seem to be riding the waves of sound in the same way they did. There is good pk modulation, but it seems frequency starved to me, so the intelligence cant form fully with limited spectra available. Definitely messages there. Here is a section I have played with a bit.

export edited a bit.mp3

Edited by Dr Jeffers
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2 hours ago, Dr Jeffers said:

Great circuit Andres. Youre getting some good results with it. Its morning here, and I was listening to the raw file (not fully awake). My mind heard (and drifted away with) the primordial sounds of wind, rain and thunder that I was hearing / experiencing. You have tapped into the energy sounds of nature. This is a great confirmation I think that youre heading in the right direction !

The voices have changed their characteristic, and dont seem to be riding the waves of sound in the same way they did. There is good pk modulation, but it seems frequency starved to me, so the intelligence cant form fully with limited spectra available. Definitely messages there. Here is a section I have played with a bit.

export edited a bit.mp3 110.57 kB · 0 downloads

Yes Jeff, you nailed it down. The transfer function of coherer circuits is highly nonlinear because of thresholds and positive feedback effects I assume. The audio signal is lacking spectral 'body', so to speak. You processed clip definitely sounds improved!

The best quality in terms of signal spectrum you will find in the areas with lower volumes. That seems tove the sweet point. However adjusting the CCR sometimes is more an art instead a technique.

And yes, the signal resembles the sound of nature. I had the same impression. Especially the spikes appear like raindrops sometimes.

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Today I made my first experiments  with a homemade CCR. I used epoxy glue mixed with graphite powder.

IMG_20210718_165001.jpg

 

This is the CCR!

IMG_20210718_165015_1.jpg

The properties are depending much upon the concentration of graphite powder. This CCR has a resistance of 30 MOhms and noises quite well with some pk modulation.

DIY CCR clip: DIY CCR Export.mp3

This is just a proof of the principle  to get rid of the dependency  of  old CCR and maybe optimize  the pk modulation.

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7 hours ago, Dr Jeffers said:

Hi Andres, this is a great idea. DIY CCR. The noise characteristic is indeed different - more busy and less violent.

Here is one segment within it where I heard a voice quite clearly - "wheres the plot?"

 

Wheres the plot.mp3 13.71 kB · 1 download

Yes Jeff, I can hear the same!!

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Experiment from today: Check the sound of graphite powder immersed in demineralized water with electrodes at both ends.

IMG_20210719_181309.jpg

Looks like sewage but it's a graphite-water emulsion. The noise characteristic is very linear; small bias -> little noise, big bias -> much noise. Everything intermixed with spiky voices. The following sample is processed with pitch shift, reverb and finally 10dB denoising.

Graphite Fluid 2021-08-19 - export processed.mp3

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The clip is very interesting. In the first part you hear a distorted slowly speaking voice. From time position 01:30 on the volume increases and other, more angry voices are invading the signal. In the end it turns all into a complete mess of shouting voices. Appeared to me like negative beings were hijacking the communication.

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This is a very busy clip Andres. There are a lot of voices, sometimes speaking at once, as you say. Some very clear speech segments - the best Ive heard so far, compared to your previous Coherer experiments. I think this hardware change has captured the attention of those wanting to speak, and theyre all in wanting to have a go !

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7 hours ago, Dr Jeffers said:

This is a very busy clip Andres. There are a lot of voices, sometimes speaking at once, as you say. Some very clear speech segments - the best Ive heard so far, compared to your previous Coherer experiments. I think this hardware change has captured the attention of those wanting to speak, and theyre all in wanting to have a go !

Thanks Jeff, then I'll give it to them.

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Hello Mr. Ramos,

I was playing with your file and uploaded a short video:

Let me know if you hear any messages in German in the alloted section.

Thanks ~ Ron

 

p.s. Because of the size I could not load it into the thread.  If this file is not in the right place maybe someone can move it or delete it at a later time.

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Very cool Ron! I'm still in my job and also have some appointments today. I will dig in what you did tomorrow. Thanks in advance for your work!!

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11 hours ago, Arizona EVP said:

Hello Mr. Ramos,

I was playing with your file and uploaded a short video:

Let me know if you hear any messages in German in the alloted section.

Thanks ~ Ron

 

p.s. Because of the size I could not load it into the thread.  If this file is not in the right place maybe someone can move it or delete it at a later time.

I just took a qucik look at your video. It's amazing Ron! You took the audio file for a life session if I get you right. I heard from some people doing this but never witnessed a session like this. So many thanks for this video!

I would like to replicate what you did with the file. Waht I uderstood was,

  • you expanded it into stereo
  • reversed on channel
  • converted it back into mono?
  • lowered the pitch?
  • lowered the speed?

Could you please acknowledge or correct and specify the items in more detail?

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5 hours ago, Andres Ramos said:

I just took a qucik look at your video. It's amazing Ron! You took the audio file for a life session if I get you right. I heard from some people doing this but never witnessed a session like this. So many thanks for this video!

I would like to replicate what you did with the file. Waht I uderstood was,

  • you expanded it into stereo
  • reversed on channel
  • converted it back into mono?
  • lowered the pitch?
  • lowered the speed?

Could you please acknowledge or correct and specify the items in more detail?

Greetings Mr. Ramos,

Yes,  I recorded a live session with your audio file using infinity box.

With your audio file what I did was opened the file in adobe audition.

I took your file and Normalized different sections. 

I did have to snip out a tiny portion which accounts for the difference in the length of the audio file.

I  copied and pasted the file to create a stereo version.

 

ORIGINAL.jpg

STEREO.jpg

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Then I selected the Right channel and reversed it and the saved the file.

I Did Not make any adjustments to the speed - pitch or tempo while using adobe audition.

 

I brought up the infinity box program and opened / loaded the program.

Infinity box plays audio files in a loop.

Infinity box is where you can change tempo - rate - pitch and other things.

I started playing with the settings until I came across something that seemed to produce real time 2 way interaction.

The attached pic is the infinity box settings I used with the video I recorded.

 

 

 

REVERSE RIGHT CHANNEL.jpg

INFINITY SETTING.jpg

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