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Coherer like effects with water


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Funny idea. A thought came to my mind that water soaked up by a sponge would yield into electrical  irregularities if you would route a current through it. I made a quick setup with two graphite electrodes in a soldering sponge.

IMG_20210329_123852.jpg

An OpAmp was used to amplify the signal. I got a strong noise rich in impulses. Voices in it which sound totally  oversaturated. 

Sponge Voices Signal.jpg

See the strong impulse blocks shooting out from the ground noise level. Voices are of poor legibility but very strong.

Track Export.mp3

 

I am hypothesizing that all semi conducting media in granular form with irregular contact points, are forming an extremely sensitive but highly nonlinear transfer function between the hereafter and the physical realm. If we assume something like modulated energy coming from the spirits, this signal seems to push against an interdimensional border. This border could be flexible. If the signal amplitude energy pushes against it, maybe it becomes deformed and at uncertain trigger point becomes disrupted. For a short moment the barrier opens a hole like in a flexible plastic diaphragm and releases the ethereal amplitude maximum as an energy impulse into the physical realm. After this injection of energy the diaphragm closes again. The amplitude information gets more or less completely lost in this transformation process. This is the reason why the voices are extremely distorted. Only the maximum parts of the spirit amplitude make it through the barrier and are converted into spikes. The spike levels are only loosely related to the original spirit amplitude.

Could this be a first thought for an ITC impulse model?

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This is a truly amazing way to go. It is very much like a "Wet Coherer". The short lived "Hole" in the "Barrier makes a lot of sense, and explains a lot of the effects of Short-term receiving.

I look forward to hearing further news on this experiment, as it requires very few components to experiment with.

Edited by CanadaKim
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Oh, and to add, this would definatly be considered a ITC Impulse Unit, in my mind.

Once again , with your explaination, maybe someway to reduce the modulation to a more steady state would leave the portal open for a longer period of time, and would reduce the amount of clipping in the Portal????

Edited by CanadaKim
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On 3/30/2021 at 8:16 PM, CanadaKim said:

Oh, and to add, this would definatly be considered a ITC Impulse Unit, in my mind.

Once again , with your explaination, maybe someway to reduce the modulation to a more steady state would leave the portal open for a longer period of time, and would reduce the amount of clipping in the Portal????

Yes O definitely have some ideas in this direction.

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To drive it to the edge today i tried a setup without a sponge and the graphite electrodes just immersed in tap water. It works as well!

IMG_20210403_104540.jpg

 

Here is a sample of some minutes (unprocessed):Water coherer Sample.mp3

As always with coherer setups the sensitivity is great but voice quality bad. Here some rather good samples.

"Einen Sender suchen" -> "Searching for a transmitter":Einen Sender suchen.mp3

"Fortführen" -> "Go on!": Fortführen.mp3

"Ist perfekt" -> "It's perfect":Ist perfekt.mp3

"Passt schon" -> "Good match": Passt schon.mp3

"So eine gute Erfindung -> "Such a good invention": So eine gute Erfindung.mp3

"Und wir ham den Krieg verlor'n" -> "And we lost the war": Un wir ham den Krieg verlorn.mp3

Since this type of water coherer does not contain any more irregulary current paths I have no idea why it is working so good. Seems that the water itself works like a quantum fluctuation sensor with avalanche effect.

 

 

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Good idea Andres, and the clips were good, as is the concept.

The pk modulation is quite strong (and not time compressed), which is the most important factor, but the resultant voices in my opinion are spectrum deficient, but this can can be improved. Its usually the other way round (good supplied spectrum, poor pk modulation) with traditional evp, and that is a harder task to improve.

I presume the water has a dc bias through it, and current relies on impurities in order to get ionic current established?

Your clips with the sponge were a good too, creating time compressed artifacts. The spiking is a good catalyst, and there is therefore strong pk modulation, but only for a very brief time.

I like the idea of electrolysis too. here is a link to sounds created by currents generated by dissimilar metals..
http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/els/alsounds-el.htm

[ I was going to re-write my previous post to you that I deleted, but didn't get to it ]

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Audible electrolysis? This is very nice. I've always wanted to "listen to bubbles", but didn't have the right setup.

- If so, the addition of sodium chloride or any ionic salt would increase conductivity and bubbling. Don't want to run NaCl-water all day as it could produce noxious gases 🙂 

- Also, pure water is not conductive. The slightest impurities provide conductance.

- The shape of the electrodes would effect bubble (possibly noise) production: for example surface area is important.

- Sound reminds me of my 1/f avalanched LED's, but your spectrum is not 1/f below 700 Hz. How strange and cool that water would have a non-simple spectrum.

 

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Thanks for your comments guys. Actually I was amazed by the link Jeff posted since I knew Nyle Steiners experiments since long and I repeated his electrochemical noise experiment with NaCL and aluminum ten years ago!

To be sure that the ITC effect I observed in water is bound to moving ions I will buy a bottle of demineralized water. Theoretically I shouldn't get a signal anymore then.

Jeff id absolutely right about the signal characteristic. Good pk modulation but bad voice quality. Similar as with the coherer i am assuming avalanche effects being the cause. These are making the receptor very sensitive but also are destroying the modulation because of their highly non linear behavior.

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Well, I had that electrolysis url bookmarked for 2 years. It was on the "to-do" list, but I didnt. Looks like it was waiting for you guys to turn up!🙂

Andres, if the demineralised water doesnt stop ionic conduction, it might be due to impurities leeching out of the graphite. Maybe stainless steel electrodes would be in order?

Ive got several ideas for improving spectrum defficiency, but probably best to see this ionic thing is confirmed.

 

Edited by Dr Jeffers
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11 hours ago, Dr Jeffers said:

Well, I had that electrolysis url bookmarked for 2 years. It was on the "to-do" list, but I didnt. Looks like it was waiting for you guys to turn up!🙂

Andres, if the demineralised water doesnt stop ionic conduction, it might be due to impurities leeching out of the graphite. Maybe stainless steel electrodes would be in order?

Ive got several ideas for improving spectrum defficiency, but probably best to see this ionic thing is confirmed.

 

Sometimes I think we don't find the topics, they find us.

I will check next week when I get demineralized water.

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Yes, this electrolysis principle is simple, and has promise I think. Perhaps the process can be put on steriods by using dissimilar metals more separated on the galvanic scale. A suitably hotter pair would be Zinc (galvanised steel) and graphite (or silver).

I'm not going to experiment with this, as have been reminded to get onto the "aural optical".

Edited by Dr Jeffers
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I fed Michael lees ML with the water coherer today (still tap water) and got some amazing results!!

It was really funny, the first message was "What is this?", followed by "in the water " and then "Give us some time", Seems I really gave them something to chew.

"Was ist das?" -> "What is this?": Was ist das.mp3

"What Andrés can" : What Andrés can.mp3

"Im Wasser" -> "In the water" : Im Wasser.mp3

"Gib uns Zeit" -> "Give us some time" : Gib uns und Zeit.mp3

"Archivar" -> "Archiver" : Archivar.mp3

"Mission show us" :Mission show us.mp3

"This is Andrés" : This is Andres.mp3

"Starting some..." :Starting some.mp3

"Share Virus" :Share Virus.mp3

"Bacci?" : Bacci.mp3

"Sample" : Sample.mp3

"She gotta rise this" : She gotta rise this.mp3

"Disable": Disable.mp3

"We saw also Homes" : We saw also Homes.mp3

"Environment" : Environment.mp3

 

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I got another weird idea. What if I would use AC current instead of DC to run it through the water? First I had this thought because I read that AC current does not provoke electrolysis of the water but the more thrilling thought is what would happen if I'd combine a tone, a frequency with the water ITC effect?

 

Daring thoughts...

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Yes Andres, this was the essence of one of the methods I mentioned I was going to add to the discussion - to increase spectral content so the good level of latent pk modulation already noted could have more meaningful work to do in producing more intelligent artifacts. In my conception, it was to suggest that an ac sound carrier could ride on the dc current in relative proportion, so the linear ionic flow is ac modulated.

The second method was to inject the carrier sound acoustically by vibrating the water with a speaker. 

There is a third method, but its not clear in my head yet.

I didnt think of applying ac to the electrodes, as thought a modulated linear flow seemed more conducive to pk sculpting than a constantly reversing one. This viewpoint of mine is probably looking at a new concept with traditional (analog flow modulation) eyes, so may not have merit.

This exciting discussion is running parallel to a concept I had some years ago for something I called ionic conduits. I will explain this.

I think these ideas are finding us (plural), as you say!

Edited by Dr Jeffers
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Great ideas Jeff! Adding an ac signal yo the dc current is more or less a low brainer. I could try this next weekend. Exciting the water by sound is even more thrilling because I actually have no idea how the system will react electrically. I have piezo transducers who probably work if immersed in water.

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Test from today with improved circuit. For the first time I could identify a spirit message I could understand without post-processing. The message "Andrés" contains the unprocessed signal first and the slightly denoised (18dB) after.

"Andrés!": Andrés.mp3

The signal is very agile. You can see a strong pk modulation.

First Track000.png

Here you can listen to some short and agile samples. You can hear very clearly a distorted voice breaking through but not legible.

Pure Voice without processing.mp3

Sample.mp3

I ran the water cell (trying to avoid the term coherer because it isn't a coherer anymore) with roughly 4-5 mA through the cell and approx 4-5V voltage on the cell. The feeding goes over a 1k working resistor. Signal ist amplified by 40dB and then fed into my soundcard. I implemented a 1st order highpass with a corner frequency around 300 Hz because the signal contains strong LF components.

Despite the distorted signal the pk modulation is amazing. It could be even improved a bit by noise gating. There is really some magic in this device.

IMG_20210409_172359.jpg

IMG_20210409_172411.jpg

One component of the pk susceptibility seems to be an electrochemical reaction. I can see small bubbles growing slowly at the graphite rods. Certainly this is oxygen and hydrogen being generated. I used ordinary tap water.

 

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This is great Andres. The pk modulation is quite striking. Do you think the addition of electrolyte would add to this effect. About a year ago i bought some potassium nitrate to test it in solution for ionic modulation effects, but never got to doing so.

The idea I received back then from messages was a wild one that I coined "ionic conduits". The basis of this is to use thin plastic tubing containing ionic based solution, pass a residual current through it, and use this "ionic wire" for traditional experiments, such as winding it into a coil (perhaps two separate "coils" and seeing if a transformer principle would work, or if it was pk influenced by applying a carrier magnetic field - or configured even as a capacitor principle. I thought that if the ionic wire could be influenced by pk modulation, it might be transferable to traditional applications and be enhanced.

Edited by Dr Jeffers
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7 hours ago, Dr Jeffers said:

This is great Andres. The pk modulation is quite striking. Do you think the addition of electrolyte would add to this effect. About a year ago i bought some potassium nitrate to test it in solution for ionic modulation effects, but never got to doing so.

The idea I received back then from messages was a wild one that I coined "ionic conduits". The basis of this is to use thin plastic tubing containing ionic based solution, pass a residual current through it, and use this "ionic wire" for traditional experiments, such as winding it into a coil (perhaps two separate "coils" and seeing if a transformer principle would work, or if it was pk influenced by applying a carrier magnetic field - or configured even as a capacitor principle. I thought that if the ionic wire could be influenced by pk modulation, it might be transferable to traditional applications and be enhanced.

This would be a stunning thought, Jeff. Currently I am unsure about the contribution of ions in this process. I will buy demineralized water today to prove this. If it's true, what you said would open a complete new area for ITC research!

Currently we are always dealing with electrons, so to speak, but ions would behave different. They travel much slower I guess, are bigger and can react chemically on their way with other substances. Forcing them to run in a spiral and exposing them to magnetic fields would be fascinating!

I have different electrolytes at my hands to check if the noise quality changes by using them.

Wow, we are now entering the realm of spiritiual chemistry. Thrilling!

The only technical problem is to deal with the hydrogen and oxygen gas that is produced as a byproduct of the ion movement. The gas bubbles will clog the tubes. Thus the mechanical setup should provide an exhaust mechanism for the gas. I principally have the same problem with my water cell. Will need to drill a small hole for the gas to flow out. Another annoying outcome of this process is that the water will be consumed by the time and must be refueled.

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9 minutes ago, Andres Ramos said:

The only technical problem is to deal with the hydrogen and oxygen gas that is produced as a byproduct of the ion movement. The gas bubbles will clog the tubes.

Can it be minimized by keeping current and electrolyte concentration low? I presume there will be a minimum value of each that will sustain ionic flow.

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Just now, Dr Jeffers said:

Can it be minimized by keeping current and electrolyte concentration low? I presume there will be a minimum value of each that will sustain ionic flow.

Certainly thisis possible. The production of gas is moderate so far. Nevertheless it will accumulate if the system is closed. I'm thinking of a mechanical setup that utilizes the fact that gas bubbles make their way straight up vertically while the ions are following the lines of force of the electric field.

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40 minutes ago, Andres Ramos said:

Currently we are always dealing with electrons, so to speak, but ions would behave different. They travel much slower I guess, are bigger and can react chemically on their way with other substances. Forcing them to run in a spiral and exposing them to magnetic fields would be fascinating!

I remember Moray King promoted the idea that zpe could be tapped by ionic velocity modulation - but in his case, he was referring to ions in plasma. Even so, I think this is also another clue along the path regarding the wet coherer and ionic wires.

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Demineralized water.jpg

I just did a quick test with demineralized water in the water cell. Results are a bit ambigous. Generally the signal characteristic stayed the same as you can see. However I needed more voltage. I now have 11V across the cell with 0,5mA flowing through and the signal level is lower. My first conclusion is that the signal level is bound to ion conductivity but not to the signal characteristic. Nevertheless there are still some bubbles growing on the graphite rods even though they are small and grow very slowly.

Sample:Demineralized Water.mp3

IMG_20210410_124340.jpg

 

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I think its a good sign that the signal characteristic seems independent of ionic current, as would imply the signal has a strong bond to the water itself, and perhaps the actual pk modulation % is proportional to the ionic concentration.

Edited by Dr Jeffers
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On 4/10/2021 at 10:02 PM, Dr Jeffers said:

I think its a good sign that the signal characteristic seems independent of ionic current, as would imply the signal has a strong bond to the water itself, and perhaps the actual pk modulation % is proportional to the ionic concentration.

Yes Jeff. Actually you just presented a very good abstracted model for what is going on in a water cell.👍

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My new water cell ITC receiver is in progress. First test runs have taken place today.

IMG_20210417_174118.jpgIMG_20210417_174127.jpg

Everything is contained in an aluminum casing. The water cell is in the upper right vorner in an own compartment. Need to add some foam on the ground to prevent microphonic effects.

Test with Michael Lee's ML were amazing! I got a hundred messages from roughly 10 minutes recording material and there is even more in it but for some english messages I couldn't find a meaning. Even though I still want to improve the gain and noise gating in the device. I got speech on a regular base from the ML. Most messages in german, some in english an some mixed.

One weird thing occurred. Some messages were coming from an entity saying he was me! Maybe I got in contact with one of my self fragments.

"Bin Andrés" -> "I am Andrés": Bin Andres.mp3

"Andrés heisse" -> "My name is Andrés": Andrés heisse.mp3

"Andrés Agent ist" -> "Andrés is agent":Andres Agent ist.mp3

"Andrés saß in Liebe" -> "Andrés was embedded in love": Andres saß in Liebe.mp3

"Du einst zwei Personen" -> "You are two persons": Du einst zwei Person.mp3

"Keith is happy": Keith is happy.mp3

"Part is demon": Parts is demon.mp3

"Who sell it": Who sell it.mp3

Then I got some messages where they reflected my water cell setup.

"Wasser stützt" -> "Water is supporting": Wasser stützt.mp3

"Wasser schiesst" -> "Water is shooting": Wasser schiesst.mp3

"Wasser hört" -> "Water is listening": Wasser hört.mp3

 

"This is Sam Weiss" (Maybe the hobbit? I don't know): This is Sam Weiss.mp3

"Sorry brother": Sorry brother.mp3

"Space are us": Space are us.mp3

"Suchst die andere" -> "You are looking for the other one":Suchst die andere.mp3

"Jetzt hört die Maniston" -> "Now Manniston is listening":Jetzt hört die Manniston.mp3

 

 

 

Bin Andres.mp3 Andres saß in Liebe.mp3 Du einst zwei Person.mp3 Keith is happy.mp3 Parts is demon.mp3 Who sell it.mp3 Wasser stützt.mp3 Wasser schiesst.mp3 Wasser hört.mp3 This is Sam Weiss.mp3 Sorry brother.mp3 Space are us.mp3 Suchst die andere.mp3

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9 hours ago, Dr Jeffers said:

Also wanted  to ask if you intend to add an ionic salt to the cell, to see what difference it makes to receptivity?

Thank's Jeff for your kind comments. See the schematic below but please be aware it is preliminary since I already identified some flaws.

Water Cell.JPG

The preamplifier gain is not well balanced to match the required leveling for the noise gating (the two diodes). I need a little more gain of roughly 10dB I guess. Then I want to kick out the af-transformer because they are rare and expensive. Another thing is the noise gating itself. The more I turn up the gate the less the output amplitude becomes. This is normal. I want to modify the last op amp in a way that noise gate and amplifier are both operated with one stereo poti. Thus I can compensate the amplitude loss by more amplification. Odeally I can turn up the gating and the signal level at the output stays the same.. I already have a modified schematic but won't be able to realize a new setup until next weekend.

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Referring to your question of adding minerals. Currently I am operating the cell with demineralized water an adding a tiny bit of Alum just to give it a try. Here a whole realm of new possibilities is opening up by using different chemicals in different concentrations or even mixing. The possibilities are literally limitless!

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I would not kill the af transformer, just yet, unless its truly useless. Is it a 1:1 audio transformer?...there are quite a few on EBay. They offer such great isolation, better than any other component.

As per usual, even this preliminary Schematic, is beautiful in its practicality, and simplicity...as I always see in Andres designs.

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I had suggested to have a small aquarium pump, feeding an air stone for thousands of tiny bubbles. An Ionozer at the input of the pump would mean thousands of tiny, highly ionized bubbles bubbling straight upwards around the electrodes.

Edited by CanadaKim
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6 hours ago, Michael Lee said:

Andres,

Great work! From time to time, I hear "myself" There, too. Pretty crazy! Could be fragment, previous / future personality, etc.

If you think about it, though, they need someone like yourself on the other side explaining to everyone what you're doing 😎.

 

Thanks Michael. In my impression I see a mirrored self of everyone of us on the other side. I have  spiritual companion here in germany, his name is Alfred. He is deeply connected with the astral plane since long and part of a group that is half here and half in the hereafter. Every member has his reflected equivalent on the other side. And you are right, it is crazy!

Please be aware you have your share in my work. I tried denoising and in the signal parts dominated by impulses also paulstretching and it worked but gave me no outstanding results. But with your ML the results are  really great! Appears to me as if two compatible qualities have found each other finally. 

We'll see if I can improve the hardware a bit and can find out the ideal preset for your ML and the water cell. Still lots of tests to do.

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23 hours ago, Andres Ramos said:

Thank's Jeff for your kind comments. See the schematic below but please be aware it is preliminary since I already identified some flaws.

Water Cell.JPG

The preamplifier gain is not well balanced to match the required leveling for the noise gating (the two diodes). I need a little more gain of roughly 10dB I guess. Then I want to kick out the af-transformer because they are rare and expensive. Another thing is the noise gating itself. The more I turn up the gate the less the output amplitude becomes. This is normal. I want to modify the last op amp in a way that noise gate and amplifier are both operated with one stereo poti. Thus I can compensate the amplitude loss by more amplification. Odeally I can turn up the gating and the signal level at the output stays the same.. I already have a modified schematic but won't be able to realize a new setup until next weekend.

Forgot to say there is a small error in the schematic I have fixed already. R5 is not any more directly connected to R3/C1 because the DC coupling together with the offset voltage of the op-amp shifts the bias away from the middle. I know disconnected R1 from C1/R3 and implemented another 22uF capacitor from R1 to GND

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OK, I just finished my alpha tests with the new receiver design. After some changes and tweaks it now works like I intended it to do. Just functional tests so far but the signal reading is good and my noise gate stage now works very smoothly, better than with the SSM2176 circuit.

 

This is the new schematic:

 

The interactions between the different stages are now well balanced. As promised I added some technical parameters to the schematic about the water cell to make replications easier. Sorry I needed to kick out the AF transformer. It turned out that the noise gate workes better without transformer, just with resistors. Moreover now the component list became easier.

Water Cell Rev_1.JPG

 The signal looks VERY good and has nice instabilities and polarity shifts. I really love it. This weekend I will build up the new electronic according to the scheme above and customize the front panel. If everythings works as expected the receiver will be ready for streaming around sunday. Keith reserved a relay stream for me.

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Something strange happened today. I finished the prototype according to the latest schematic posted here. I really was wondering that it took me an immense amount of effort to get the job done because of tremendous stupid errors I had made during soldering the electronic. Similar errors I just made the last time when I was a kid. It took me hours to beat the crap out of the device. Finally the electronic worked fine but then suddenly the noise signal from the cell ripped off. I double and triple checked everything. Found nothing, the electronic worked as expected. I knew that one of the rods was broken and only was temporarily repaired by me. Thus I completely exchanged the rods and added a brand new cabling. Now noise!. Then I changed the water and added fresh alum. No Noise! Finally I could'nt go on anymore because a feeling of terrible exhaustion came over me.

I just can say that electrically everyhing is alright but the cell noising effect seems to be just gone! Could a be that  a door got slammed  before my very eyes?

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I think I found out and the result is a big slap in the face! As I said I had temporarily repaired one of the broken rods by pushing it tight fit into the cork where the other piece of the rod sticked into. This resulted in a fragile electrical connection generating a Coherer effect. I proved this by bridging both of the new rods with a third one placed loosely on the other two ones. Immediately I got the same signal I had last week.

The crack in the rod was hidden because it was in the part of the rod going through the cork and thus not visible. I suspect it was there from the very beginning. Thus all my results with it are a fake.

The conclusion is, there is no water coherer effect! It's a delusion! The signal is coming from loosely connected graphite. It's a simple graphite coherer and nothing more. However it gave very good signals.

So please don't waste your time replicating this circuit. There is no ITC in it!

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5 hours ago, Dr Jeffers said:

I'm so sorry to read of your disappointing discovery with this project Andres.

I have had a similar experience like this, but please don't do what I did afterwards, and stop any experimentation for months.

JEFF

Thanks for your motivation Jeff and please don't worry. This is just a setback with one technique and nothing in general. I'm glad I found out the issue before going public with this technique. Just need to rewrite a part of my coherer paper because I was referring to the water cell.

This is why it is so important to adopt at least a basic scientific method in ITC and to maintain a reasonable share of self criticism. Failing is not a shame as long as you find out and acknowledge it. Now I know at least the water cell has no ITC potential. On the other hand I obviously got very good results from the parasitic graphite coherer. Thus I will replace the water cell by loosely touching graphite rods today and try to replicate my results from last week.

I'll never stop my research in ITC!

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43 minutes ago, CanadaKim said:

LOL...I was recording the output of the Water/Sponge Coherer output for 2 days, and all I was getting was blasts of what seem to be 60hz. I have been greatly disappointed with my own work in the ITC field, and this didnt help

I'm sorry for this setback Kim and that I made you waste your time. It was also frustrating for me. That's why it is so important to question ourselves over and over again.

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  • 3 months later...

There are many interesting phenomena with water, which some mystics call the universal substance, present in all dimensions. It looks like there was the beginning of a discussion of the Emoto effect under Water Secrets on this forum. That is where intention directly impacts water formation into resonant geometric forms. Also, experiments of Radin and others on intention and water crystal formation. I wonder if these could be folded into Coherer Effect experiments. 

Another phenomenon is cavitation, where high pressure water bubbles burst, creating free energy. Could that energy be harnessed to enhance the Coherer Effect? 

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